Anything But Automatic: a chat with

by Rick  <rlindqui@sun.iwu.edu>

[ Clutch's much-anticipated third full-length release, The Elephant Riders, hits stores on Tuesday, April 14, 1998. Their first album for their new label, Columbia Records, diehard fans should not be disappointed. WESN's own Rick and Danielle caught up with lead singer Neil Fallon before their March 8 show in St. Louis. Rick graciously transcribed the interview for dto music. ]

When we got to Mississippi nights on Sunday afternoon, we were way too early for the interview. We walked around town, got something to eat, and then waited inside the club for the band to finish dinner. By the time the tour manager (Jack Flanagan) came to get us, soundcheck had started. That meant that we would have to do our interview with Neil Fallon (the vocalist) on Clutch's tour bus. As we got on the bus, the guys were playing Oddworld for Playstation. Neil offered us something to drink, and Danielle took a beer. We started talking about video games, and Danielle brings up "Parappa the Rapper"...

N: Is it fun?

D: Yeah. All you have to do is time it right, hit the buttons at the right time. It's pretty easy.

N: And what, this guy raps?

D: Yeah, it's this little dog, and the first level is, like, your karate teacher is an onion.

N: (laughs)

R: Yeah, I guess you've got to learn to rap to win back your girlfriend or something like that, right? It's pretty insane.

N: So it's close to life.

R: All I've got is this little tape recorder. It usually does a pretty good job.

N: Right on.

R: I guess I'm doing an interview so I ought to ask some questions.

N: Is this for the radio?

R: Uh, what we'll probably do is transcribe it, and put it up on the website or whatever. If it comes out nice enough, we'll remaster the interview and put it on DAT or something like that, for posterity.

N: Right.

R: Usually when we do that it never gets used, except for our interview with Wesley Willis, which is a classic.

N: Who's that?

R: He's this 6-7 black, schizophrenic street musician from Chicago. He's insane.

N: What does he play?

D: He has it all programmed into his keyboard.

R: Yeah, he has this Casio keyboard and he plays the prerecorded demo songs, and he makes up lyrics about concerts he's been to, and then he just shouts them really loud and out of key.

N: Is it good?

R: Well, good? I don't know if it's good.

N: (laughs) It's different.

R: It's definitely different. That's the best interview I've ever done, because when we asked him why he wrote a song about Michael Jackson, he said, "because he is a gay homosexual." I didn't understand, but...

D: (laughs)

N: (laughs) I guess that's what schizophrenia will do for you.

R: So, you guys have been doing the "Ladies Night in Cambodia" tour for, a couple months now has it been, or are you still pretty close to the start of the tour?

N: No, its been about 2 1/2 weeks, almost three now, and another three to go.

R: You're swinging through St. Louis from Chicago right?

N: No, we were in Milwaukee last night.

R: Milwaukee, ok. Wow, that's out of the way

N: Yeah, we'll be going back up in a few days to Minneapolis.

R: How did a tour like this come about? Because I know that you've got bands that are doing a lot of different things.

N: Limp Bizkit asked us to. I guess they liked our music and just asked and we said "Sure."

R: Actually I read somewhere that you guys actually take turns headlining shows. Do you ever change the show?

N: Well, the order's always Sevendust, us, Limp Bizkit. There are a few cities that are called co-headlining cities, and that's only because the pay is the same. Nevertheless, Limp Bizkit will always headline.

R: OK. Now, you guys recently had a label jump. Is there any sort of interesting background about why you went to Columbia? That's kind of an interesting, kind of a weird label to go to.

N: Well, to summarize everything that happened was this: when we did our last album, we were with Eastwest records when we started recording it, and we finished it, and then they dropped us. And we still wanted the album to come out, so we had to put it out in the WEA system, and Atlantic was one of those labels inside the Warner brothers system, Warner/Elektra/Atlantic, that is. So we put it out with them just so we could have the album come out. When we started doing this next, this one that we just finished, it became evident that they weren't interested in it at all. We had recorded it once, they asked us to do it again, then we started recording again and it was pretty evident that they were just going to shelve it. So, I don't know exactly what happened to this day, but our manager somehow got Columbia involved and Columbia just went and purchased the album from Atlantic, and our contract with Atlantic is now null and void and we have a new one with Columbia.

R: I had heard a lot about the album before the label switch, looking on the Internet, checking on preliminary song lists, and some of those things changed. I didn't know if you guys maybe had to shelve the previous version of the album, like, I had heard that Big News III was going to be on The Elephant Riders.

N: Well, we had a bunch of songs that aren't on this album that we recorded that are now I guess classified as b-sides. We did a session in a house in West Virginia that we were living in, and they didn't like the fact that we made a dirt cheap record and were going to keep a lot of change, I think was one of the things. So, we recorded it again. There are a few tunes from that session that are on the album, but I guess it worked out for the best, because it gave us a chance to rewrite some things that otherwise we wouldn't have the chance to do. So, we made it a positive thing as best we could.

R: I heard the prime numbers teaser [an advance disc with three new songs on it], and I kind of noticed that, not so much that you're changing directions with things, but a lot of the sound is going a different direction. I mean, the vocals are not quite as harsh - kind of headed toward a groove-oriented thing. Is that some sort of direction you're going with the sound?

N: Well, we don't have a conscious effort like "This is what we're going to do now." We're always changing because there's no reason to go on unless you're growing and learning. Our albums reflect that - each album is sort of a snapshot of what we're doing at the time. I mean, the amount of musicianship between this album and the first album, you know, it's increased tenfold, so we're not going to hide that at all. We're going to do stuff that is challenging for us. You know some people would rather we pump out the same thing over and over and over - twenty different versions of Impetus, twenty different versions of A Shogun Named Marcus, but we can't do that because it would just smother us. So, I can tell you right now that the album that we do after this one is going to be completely different too. But only insofar as, it's still the same four guys, with the same rock setup, it's just that the songwriting changes - the process, we just get better at it.

R: Yeah, I've also heard - actually it was on one of the promo flyers that were sent out - the hint about the content of the new album, a change from the sort of alien conspiracy theme on the last album.

N: Yeah, it is. There's absolutely none of that on this album. One, because I'm pretty freaking sick of it. I mean, it's so old hat now, it drives me up the wall. And plus, like I said, it's a snapshot. That second album, we were really into that, reading a lot about it, you know just entertaining ourselves by looking out the window for UFOs or what have you. This time around, that house that we recorded in was a very old house. It was built in 1780, and it was a real historic area of the country, around Harper's Ferry, so that was sort of the vibe of the whole session. That's what inspired a good part of the lyrics for the album - they're sort of historical and there's not much to do with the science fiction. Which I'm sure will bum some people out, but you know what, those were the same people that were bummed out the first time around because it wasn't about rednecks and monster trucks. You know, "Where are the monster trucks on the second album?" then they learned to get into the alien thing and they'll come around this time too, I'm sure.

R: I imagine you don't want to pigeonhole yourself, because once you get fans expecting something...

N: Exactly. If they expect something they're going to stop coming to the shows. And, I like bands that change. I mean, sometimes I don't like it, but at least I can respect it. We're primarily a live band. We don't go in psyched that we're going to make a rock opera album or a concept album. That's our whole thing - having people come to our shows and hear how we've changed our songs, and if that's what you're not into, then we're not the band for you.

D: What are your views on religion? I've noticed that in songs like Effigy and Texan Book of the Dead, it seems like there's a lot of religious intonation.

N: Well, I had a fairly religious upbringing. I mean, I wasn't raised in a monastery, but I never want to have a song come across as being preachy. There are no social or political messages in our songs. I keep religion as personal to me as possible, because there is no point in trying to put my views across to someone else. So I steer clear from that. That song Effigy, actually most of the songs on that album were pretty emotionally driven. It was very easy to write - you know, just get mad at something and then spill something out in half an hour and there's the song. Nowadays the songs are more narrative. I've got to put a little more thought into them. I skirted that question pretty good.

R: I really like what I've heard, the three new songs that are out there. It took a little getting used to, though.

N: Well, you know, those songs that you got, Columbia records is going to put the most radio friendly songs on that, so that's what you've got right there. There are songs on the album that I guess are more in keeping to our older style, but you know I'm not going to be screaming my whole life. It gets old for me too. I've never really tried to hit any notes until the past year, and still its very difficult, but it keeps me into what we're doing.

R: I've noticed Columbia is really actually promoting the album. It seems to be sort of a departure from the past, because the last two albums, and even the re-release of Impetus, if I hadn't been looking for information, there was none to be had. Are you pretty happy with the way things have turned out with the new label?

N: Oh, absolutely. I mean they are definitely promoting it more that any other album we've ever had before. Partly because when they bought the album, they immediately assumed all of this money, and that gives them all the more reason to promote it to recoup their investment. That's the financial aspect of it. I do feel they're genuinely excited about it. The true test comes when the album is released. But, in each city we've met local representatives from the record label and that never happened before. Our last album, no one even knew when it came out - it just kind of appeared, which was a big bummer.

D: Is someone in the band classically trained? Because, I've seen you twice before, and you would do an intro and kind of like, brought all of the songs together - kind of wove them together.

N: Well, we try to do that - each set, we'll come up with transitions beforehand to kind of make everything go smooth. [Guitarist] Tim [Sult] took lessons for quite some time, and [drummer] Jean Paul Gaster. [Bassist] Dan [Maines] and I are just kind of self-taught, but we do sit down beforehand and say, we can come up with a completely new riff, or just a skeleton to improvise something and see what happens in between two songs. We try to keep each set as unique as possible. Like, tomorrow we'll play a completely different set of new songs, and that keeps us on our toes.

R: I know this really hasn't had any continuity, the way we're doing this interview, I apologize. We're not real polished. It is college radio. Our station isn't polished either. Have you noticed any sort of fan support nationwide, because I know you guys are from out east, and it seems to me that with the labels you've been on, that you might be doing bigger things than opening up. Do you see yourselves sort of getting bigger, and how do you feel about that?

N: Well, the only reason we are where we are today is because we've toured so much. We built it ourselves. No label built us. We did get international distribution, but that means nothing unless you go and play those shows. At this point I know we can pull in thousands of people in some places, and in some places we can pull in just a few hundred. There are certain pockets that are big for us, others that are not. It just depends on where we've been for how many times, and if we get played on the radio then it really blows up. In Detroit, we got played on the radio, and now it's a huge place for us to play. Hopefully this album, if everything's coordinated right, we've got a video, and everything's supposed to happen like it has been supposed to in the past - if that happens this time around I think it'll do us a lot of good. It doesn't bother me in the least to get huge. If MTV wants to play our video 24 hours a day, then so be it. I mean, we've built up enough character, you know, I don't want to go back in the van and get more character. I want to get individual buses.

R: Like Metallica?

N: Exactly.

D: Is it different touring with Limp Bizkit, because you've toured with bands like Pantera and Tad, and Prong?

N: You mean, how is this tour different?

D: Yeah.

N: No, at this point it's just second nature for us. We understand exactly what's going on. It's different just in the band, I mean as far as the daily goings on. Each show is pretty much the same. Crews for any band do the same thing every day. The schedules pretty much the same.

D: You don't really get a different crowd of people?

N: Oh, the crowd is different. It's a lot younger...

R: Yeah, I can see Limp Bizkit bringing in a relatively teenage crowd, with the MTV thing.

N: We pretty much developed a, well, it's still pretty much a young crowd, I mean if you look at the big picture it's a young crowd for us, but we're a drinking crowd, 21 and over pretty much. Theirs is an all ages show for sure. And it's good. These kids, they're not going to stay young forever, and for me it doesn't matter if they're young, old, or whatever. So, we tour with as many different types of bands as we can. And it shows in our live shows, because there's a great dichotomy of people kind of looking at each other going "Wait, what kind of scene am I in?" and then they realize it's just a Clutch show. It's not a particular set fashion going on at our shows.

R: You guys have plans to go out on a headlining tour relatively soon. Are there plans for other bands to hop on with you? Is it going to be a big tour, maybe international?

N: Well, we'll probably go to Europe by the end of the summer hopefully. I really hope. But we'll do a headlining tour this summer at some point, either before or after opening for another band. I think we'll probably do the headlining run after the album comes out. That's great for making money, and just for satisfying our own fans, and for me that's what it's all about, but it's also good to open up for other bands, to new audiences, because that's how it gets bigger. I personally almost like opening up better, because you get the rest of the night off and the burden of entertainment is mostly on the next band. We can kind of jump around on stage and walk on and off nonchalantly and we don't have much to worry about. 'If it were our show it's more of an onus.

D: Have you ever gotten a bad response from a crowd when you were opening up?

N: Oh yeah.

D: What was the worst? And what was the worst band you've opened up for?

R: Well, not that the band was bad.

D: No, no. The worst crowd.

N: The worst crowds, let's see...a lot of those Marilyn Manson crowds were pretty rough. But it wasn't so much the crowd, it was the front row, because the front row kids at any concert are the most passionate fans. They get there at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, and those kids - you know what they look like.

D: Yeah, I'm a front row kid.

N: Well, for this particular band, it was very negative, and I got a lot of attitude. And it was a long tour; it was 3 months, so by the end of the tour I was pretty negative myself. Let's see... when we toured with Biohazard in Europe, it was advertised as Crowbar with Biohazard across Europe, and I guess Crowbar couldn't do it at the last minute, so we came in. A lot of those fans were really ticked off, and those European kids don't hold anything back.

R: I don't think you want to screw with Crowbar fans.

N: No, you don't. And, you know, death threats or what have you we got on that tour. That was pretty entertaining.

D: How did you manage to get to tour with Manson?

N: They asked us. It was a good tour for us, because when we came around next time, take Springfield, MO for example. We had only been there once, and that was with Marilyn Manson. The second time we came around headlining, there were 500 kids there. I knew that that wouldn't have happened unless we had been there with Manson. And it doesn't bother me in the least who we were there with. A set of ears is a set of ears. So, it was good for us in that respect.

[ Our fearless interviewers were about to take off when they went to take a picture of Mr. Fallon. As Rick says, "I then proceeded to take an extraordinarily long time to figure out how to use the disposable camera. Neil and Danielle both laughed."]

R: There, we'll put that on the Internet.

N: So, your radio station has a webpage?

R: Yeah, we do. Well, it's pretty crappy right now.

N: Make sure you have our address. We have a kid that does a pretty good, well, he's not a kid, but he does a good webpage.

R: www.pro-rock.com?

N: Yeah.

R: Hey! (Neil was flipping his camera around and a random picture flashed)

N: That'll be interesting.

R: In ten years you'll look at that and wonder who the hell those people are. Well, we've covered the new album, the new label, and the new tour...

N: We may be coming back here with Slayer.

R: Slayer?

D: Wow. I'd be scared to go see Slayer.

N: I'm scared to play with Slayer.

R: Any band that has an album cover based on a guy who carved "Slayer" into his arm has got to be scary.

N: Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're going to get a lot of stuff thrown at us on that tour. Most Slayer fans, at least a good number of them - the passionate ones - there's Slayer and there's the rest of the world. And I think we fit in the rest of the world.

R: Maybe they'd be more receptive if you played all your songs at double speed?

N: We're definitely going to do a faster set, like what we did with the Pantera crowd. We're not going to play our slow songs or our space jams at a Pantera show.

R: I don't know, those Pantera crowds, don't they want to be cowboys? You could do an acoustic set or something.

N: That was a good tour though. That was a really good tour. Best catering we ever had.

R: Connoisseurs I guess. Well, we'll let you get ready for your show.

Danielle threw out her beer bottle, we shook Neil's hand, and headed in to see the show.

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